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Interim Trustee
If an elected trustee has died, can the Chairperson ask an owner to stand in as an interim trustee until the next AGM?
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RE: Interim Trustee
Hi
This would fall under the filling of a vacancy i.t.o. PMR 8.
RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Most certainly NOT, the trustees may as collective agree on filling the vacancy by cooption.
RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Hi Thomas
I would be interested to know under which section of the STA or PMR the filling of a vacancy would fall if not i.t.o. PMR 8.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
The Act and Rules do not indicate how the vacancy must be filled. The Chairman would be quite within his rights to invite someone to fill a vacancy providing the individual was not precluded from being a trustee by some unsatisfactory condition.
There is no requirement for a "collective agreement" by trustees.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
PMR 8 clearly indicates that "the trustees may fill any vacancy in their number". The co-opted trustee will serve until the next AGM. I do not think the Chairman may unilaterally co-opt a trustee.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
PMR 8 clearly indicates that "the trustees may fill any vacancy in their number". The co-opted trustee will serve until the next AGM. I do not think the Chairman may unilaterally co-opt a trustee.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
On what basis do you make that determination. If the other trustees object to this they are free to record their decission in the minutes and by majority vote nullify the appointment.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
PMR 8 is clear. The original question was "can the Chairperson ask an owner to stand in as and interim trustee until the next AGM" The answer is no. The Chairman may not act on his own. It is the duty of the trustees to appoint an owner to fill the vacancy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
I must agree with Tony. "The Trustees may fill any vacancy . . ." The Chairman has no rights to act on his own. Decisions are made by majority vote of the Trustees.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
This has occurred in practice where the Chairman has invited an owner to fill the vacancy. In fact when I first bought into our complex, 11 years ago, I was invited by the then chairman to fill a vacancy. There was no question of a majority vote regarding my appointment which I was required to accept in writing as treasurer of our scheme. There is absolutely no provision for a majority vote to be the deciding factor in this respect. In general I do not believe that the replacement hinges on the majority vote of the trustees.
How would you describe the actions necessary for the trustees to fill the vacancy? There are no stipulations in this respect. The mere fact that the chairman invites a suitable person to be a trustees would in itself constitute the action of the trustees filling the vacancy.This is a matter of semantics.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
John and Lana, I am affraid Tony and Anne are indeed correct. PMR 8 states "The trustees may fill any vacancy in their number." -- Myburg, that is what I meant with my 1st message (your's, for some reason did not appear then). Trustees means trustees, not a chairperson on her own. Lana, the fact that the chairman disregarded the PMRs 4, 15 - 18 & 24 in your case does not make his actions right.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
In my view Tony and Anne are not necessarily correct. The word "Trustees" does not imply that all of them must fill the vacancy. If it does the rediculous situation would prevail that each trustee would be required to fill the vacancy.The word "fill" is not defined. The rules of interpretation indicate that words assume their normal meaning unless otherwise stipulated. The Oxford Dictionary defines the word "Fill" as appoint someone to hold a vacant post. If the chairman takes the initiative and asks an owner to fill the vacant post, there is nothing wrong with this providing the candidate is a suitable person. As I said if the other trustees have any objection they are free to raise this. Otherwise how is this matter to be handled. The Act does not prescribe in this regard.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
This action by the Chairman would still need to be approved by the Trustees at a Meeting. As understand it, the Chairman or any individual trustee is not empowered to make any decisions on his own; but decisions are made by the Trustees in committee.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Hi Anne
Looks like John wants to flog this to death without much understanding of what has been said. Might be a good time to vote for closure.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Mr Tucker I regard your remarks as inappropriate. There is no question of wanting to flog anything to death without much understanding of what has been said. Who the hell do you think you are? I have to repect your viewpoint but I do not have to agree with you. I regard this discussion as being over. As far as I am concerned you have no place on STO.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Tucker. What ever you do don't make remarks that are in any way personal, otherwise I will lodge a complaint regarding your conduct. Personal innuendos have no place on STO.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
John, you are wrong. Please look at PMR 16(2) "If the number of trustees falls below the number necessary to form a quorum, the remaining trustee or trustees may continue to act, but only for the purpose of appointing or co‐opting additional trustees to make up a quorum or for the purpose of convening a general meeting of owners". No trustee, including the chairperson, may act independently. The trustees are required to hold meetings (PMR 15-17) or take decisions by round robin (Pmr 24). The word trustees in PMR 8 is just that, a quorum. The fact that chairpersons sometimes do things that are contrary to the rules do not make it right ["that is our state president's perogative :-)]
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Not sure that I follow your reasoning. The question of there only being 2 trustees left would not seem to be part of this series. As far as this series is concerned I regard the debate as over. I however would say that even reading all PMR's from 15 to 28 I can see no provision that indicates that the Chairman may not invite a candidate to replace a Trustee who no longer holds office. If there is I would be pleased to see it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
John, a chairperson does not have the authority to unilaterally invite a person to serve a trustee. A chairperson must convene a meeting or round robin her/his idea in order to get the support of fellow trustees.
However, if you maintain your view, please quote the PMR where it is stated that a chairperson may do as s/he pleases/wishes without consultation. As to your challenge to quote where it is stated, it is not, because it is not necessary. The context is obvious.
Failing such evidence from your side, PMR 8 remains contextualised within the context of PMR 15 to 28. PMR 8 (The trustees [plural] may fill any vacancy in their number) & 14 remain the ways in which vacanies can be filled.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Yates
I apologise if I have upset you. I was in fact merely stating to Anne that I thought the issue had been resolved a long time ago and it was time for me to leave the discussion.
For your information I have every right to participate in this forum just as you do.
Take care
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Tucker- You take care! For your Info. there is a demerit system on STO for just such wisecracks as yours. Be carefull, you may loose your self assured right to participate in this forum thru demeriting.
RE: Interim Trustee
The relevance of the reference to "trustees" in the plural in PMR 8 is clarified by PMR 22: "All matters at any meeting of the trustees shall be determined by a majority of the votes of the trustees present and voting". No trustee, including the chairperson, is thus empowered to decide any matter, including the appointment of an additional or alternate trustee, independently.
An interesting question relating to this query, however, is whether a trustee ceases to hold to office as a trustee on death, thus leaving "a vacancy in number" which the trustees are empowered to fill in accordance with PMR 8 - or whether a deceased trustee remains a trustee (death not being a criterion listed under PMR 13 for ceasing "to hold office as such") whose "inability to act" warrants merely the appointment of an alternate trustee subject to the terms of PMR 9 (who thus, if a non-owner, would surely be entitled i.t.o. PMR 10(2) to claim remuneration for his/her services from the estate of the deceased). A case indeed where the letter of the law decrees the "spirit" of "Bodies Corporate" management!
RE: RE: Interim Trustee
See PMR 26(1)(b) regarding delegating to one or more trustee powers. Such power may certainly be delegated to the chairman such as the power to appoint replacement trustees without having to consult all the others.
RE: RE: Interim Trustee
PMR 22 refers to matters at a meeting. Appointment of a replacement trustee need not be made at a meeting and therefore need not be made by a majority vote. Just a thought.
RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
John, your insistence that you are correct and everybody else is wrong puzzles me. Annette (I quoted you in a blogpost http://psychsoma.co.za/sectional_title_living/2008/10/neither-trustee.html#tp) presented a sound and solid argument. Trustees are annually elected by prescribed procedure and the chair elected similarly. Trustees may not act unilaterally. Why then the exception with regard to the chairperson may act unilaterally with regard to filling a vacancy? Your argument just does not make any sense.
The only sensible argument you might raise is that the trustees, through majority vote give the chair the right to proceed finding someone willing to serve.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
I am not insisting that I am correct in anyway. As I have said I must respect other view points but I do not have to agree with them and you. I have not said anybody is wrong per se. You are also making a personal statement that has no place on this forum and I strongly suggest you desist from doing so as it adds nothing to this forum. If you don't like what I say then put up with it instead of trying to "attack" with stupid statements.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
OK, now I attack with stupid statements; others are not per se wrong (despite valid grounds) you just don't agree with them (without grounds; other than personal opinion) which other must just put up with; and you decide what has a place on the forum? Interesting!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Yes you do attack with stupid personal statements that have no place on this forum. As I said just put up with it or offer a worthwhile counter contention. I repeat stay off the personal attack mode. THAT IS THE ONLY MESSAGE I HAVE FOR YOU.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Interesting example of projection. Worthwhile counter and substantiated are what you are rejecting.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
You are tiresome. I am not rejecting anything only expressing a different viewpoint as is my right to do so. Suggest you get and appreciate the message and stop trying to justify your position. Don't waste my time by responding to this response.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Interesting!
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Here's another "interesting" item for you.
Graham Paddock has expressed the philosophy that he does not"quality control" those whose contentions disagree with his.
You should try this and stop getting up tight.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
Interesting exhibitions of personal character.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Interim Trustee
I don't think so that you would notice. I suppose you will try and make a comment in the endeavour to have "the last word" Keep trying you achieve nothing but get up tight and blown away.I'm going off line now. Bye Bye!
RE: Interim Trustee
Wow! This was a hot one! I think I'll go with the Trustee's meeting confirming a 'interim' trustee. I thin it could be the safe choice.
Many thanks for all inputs, really appreciated.
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